It comes to something when we Muslims have to provide the UK with their first Muslim female Cabinet Minister in order for her to lecture society on the dangers of militant secularism.
Not content with giving Christians advice on how to be a Christian nation Warsi has just met Nazi Joe at the Vatican in order to tell Joe how she agrees with his concern that Christianity is being marginalised. Lets hope she also advised him on following the true path by reverting to Islam and seeking Allah swt forgiveness.
It goes without saying and the clue is in the title of this blog that LM believes a society rooted in faith is one that will ultimately prosper because there is broad agreement on the need for civilised norms of behaviour that are conducive to a well ordered society with rights and responsibilities rather than for example what we saw in the summer here in London during the riots.
Well done Warsi and if Christians need more Muslim help than I'm sure we are all willing to offer further guidance where appropriate.
"Nazi Joe"? Really? Don't express surprise if others fail to respect your religion when you go out of your way to slander their religious leaders.
ReplyDeleteI'm pro secularism -
ReplyDeleteI've not seen a theocracy in action that is not used and abused by the people at the top. Ideologically it's a great idea - but realistically it does not seem to turn out that way.
Jasmine, you're either very naive, or you don't get out much. So you think that in secular society people at the top don't abuse? Ever heard of Stalin? Or Mao Tze Tung? These chaps ran the model system of secularism. I had the opportunity to work in Russia just after Glasnost/perestroika. They found that some of the politburo (Russian politicians) were living in such luxury that the common people couldn't even dream of. They even found some of them had their own railway track going from their house to their weekend Dachas. Even in today's secular democracies do you really believe that politicians and behemoth businesses don't abuse the system to their own advantage? Islam is a perfect system, followed imperfectly. Liberal Capitalist democracies are imperfect systems controlled by criminals.
ReplyDeletesalam
ReplyDeleteThere is always the cognitive dissonance that arises from what muslims say and believe about their islamic "system" and the states muslims control. You have to wonder when and if this generation of muslim believers whose parents and grand parents fled the shithole so commonly run by muslim are going to figure out that the whole perfect islamic anything is a figment of their imaginations. Before everyone else gets fed up and shoots them all in the head for being fanatic religious douche bags.
ReplyDeleteSecularism is the only way. Plain and Simple. Don't paint secularism with the same brush of Stalin or Mao, I mean that can be said for Muslims and Terrorists. At the end of the day, secularism isn't just for Atheists but for all peoples who may not adhere to certain religious principles of the religious majority. Please correct me if I'm wrong but what Theologian states have the same religious rights as that of a secular society? Seriously, if you can find one let me know.
ReplyDeleteTo Anon No. 1 - No, I don't think any of what you said at all (although I thank you for the massive insinuations you have made about me and the conclusions that you have come to simply because you disagree or see things from a different perspective). What I am saying is that:
ReplyDelete"I'm pro secularism -
I've not seen a theocracy in action that is not used and abused by the people at the top.IDEOLOGICALLY IT'S A GREAT IDEA - BUT REALISTICALLY IT DOES NOT SEEM TO TURN OUT THAT WAY."
All of the other things you raise, are part of a different discussion I believe? Totalitarian dictatorships, the successfulness of democracy, Capitalist systems - these are all massive debates that (for me) are separate issues to the blogpost - and lengthy debates at that.
So - just because I do not think that theocracies are not abused by the people who run them, it does not automatically mean I approve of every alternative and think they are just wonderful. It simply means "I have not seen a theocracy in action that is not used and abused by the people at the top" . I remain pro secularism - I would be very uncomfortable if (for example) if the Pope was put in charge of a country because he is the Pope, and I would be uncomfortable leaving all political affairs in his hands. I think such a thing would be very dangerous.
Jasmine
ReplyDeleteYou talk about accepting that those at the top of an islamic theocracy will end up abusing their position, I am curious if you think that those involved in a sharia based court system would make mistakes(errors in judgement) or succumb to corruption and abuse of position. If so what does this do to claims of sharia divine origin and authority? Wouldn't you expect a divinely mandated system of justice to be perfect as God is perfect? If islamic jurists are capable of error how does one appeal an amputated limb, or unstone a falsely convicted adulterer? Islamic judges are human beings prone to error and corruption as any human being, to attach a divine authority to their rulings is a slander against God. That is part of why theocracies never seem to work out.